{"id":646321,"date":"2025-10-16T13:26:26","date_gmt":"2025-10-16T20:26:26","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/tzuchi.us\/?p=646321"},"modified":"2025-11-17T14:49:21","modified_gmt":"2025-11-17T22:49:21","slug":"podcast-ep12-lisly-lee-interview","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/tzuchi.us\/cn\/blog\/podcast-ep12-lisly-lee-interview","title":{"rendered":"\u7f8e\u56fd\u5927\u7231\u767e\u5b9d\u7bb1\u7b2c\u5341\u4e8c\u96c6 \u4ece\u4e00\u4e2a\u97a0\u8eac\u5f00\u59cb\u2014\u2014\u674e\u4e1d\u8389\u30fb\u9999\u79ef\u7ed3\u5584\u7f18\uff0c\u4e66\u4fe1\u7ed3\u826f\u7f18"},"content":{"rendered":"\t\t
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1974\u5e74\uff0c\u674e\u4e1d\u8389\u4e0e\u5fb7\u96c5\u4e2d\u5b66\u540c\u5b66\u53ca\u5e08\u957f\u5408\u5f71\u7684\u6bd5\u4e1a\u7167\u3002\u56fe\u7247\u6765\u6e90\uff0f\u674e\u4e1d\u8389\n<\/figcaption><\/figure><\/div>
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1974\u5e74\u5e95\uff0c\u6211\u4ece\u9999\u6e2f\u79fb\u6c11\u5230\u7f8e\u56fd\u6d1b\u6749\u77f6\uff0c\u4e0d\u77e5\u4e0d\u89c9\u5df2\u7ecf\u4e94\u5341\u5e74\u4e86\u3002\u5f53\u65f6\u6211\u5728\u9999\u6e2f\u4e2d\u5b66\u6bd5\u4e1a\uff0c\u5de5\u4f5c\u4e86\u5927\u7ea6\u534a\u5e74\uff0c\u5c31\u51b3\u5b9a\u51fa\u56fd\u3002\u56e0\u4e3a\u4ece\u5c0f\u5c31\u5411\u5f80\u7f8e\u56fd\uff0c\u6240\u4ee5\u4e00\u843d\u811a\u6d1b\u6749\u77f6\uff0c\u867d\u7136\u8bed\u8a00\u6ca1\u6709\u592a\u5927\u969c\u788d\uff0c\u4f46\u751f\u6d3b\u4e0e\u5de5\u4f5c\u5374\u9700\u8981\u91cd\u65b0\u9002\u5e94\u3002\u65e5\u5b50\u8fc7\u5f97\u5e73\u6de1\u800c\u7b80\u5355\u3002<\/p>

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\"1975
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\u4ed6\u4e5f\u7279\u5730\u6258\u4eba\u5e2e\u4ed6\u62cd\u4e86\u4e00\u5f20\u7167\u7247\u5bc4\u7ed9\u6211\uff0c\u800c\u6211\u5219\u8bf7\u7f8e\u5a1f\u5e08\u59ca\u5e2e\u5fd9\u62cd\u4e86\u4e00\u5f20\u7167\u7247\u5bc4\u7ed9\u4ed6\u3002\u7ed3\u679c\uff0c\u4ed6\u7684\u7167\u7247\u5bc4\u5230\u6211\u8fd9\u91cc\u3001\u6211\u7684\u7167\u7247\u5bc4\u5230\u4ed6\u90a3\u91cc\uff0c\u7adf\u7136\u662f\u540c\u4e00\u5929\u6536\u5230\u3002

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\n\t\t\t\t\t

\u4e00\u89c1\u5982\u6545\u5b9a\u7ec8\u8eab<\/h2>\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t
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\u7b2c\u4e00\u6b21\u771f\u6b63\u89c1\u5230\u4ed6\u65f6\uff0c\u5fc3\u60c5\u5176\u5b9e\u6ca1\u6709\u6211\u60f3\u50cf\u7684\u90a3\u4e48\u6fc0\u52a8\u3002\u4ed6\u6bd4\u7167\u7247\u4e0a\u66f4\u7626\uff0c\u4e5f\u5b8c\u5168\u4e0d\u50cf\u4e2a\u201c\u574f\u4eba\u201d\uff0c\u53ea\u662f\u4e2a\u6027\u7a0d\u5fae\u56fa\u6267\u3002\u51e0\u6b21\u89c1\u9762\u4e4b\u540e\uff0c\u4ed6\u4fbf\u5411\u6211\u6c42\u5a5a\u3002\u6211\u4eec\u51b3\u5b9a\u5c06\u5a5a\u793c\u9009\u5728\u4ed6\u7684\u751f\u65e5\u90a3\u5929\uff0c\u56e0\u4e3a\u4ed6\u8bf4\u8fd9\u6837\u5c31\u6c38\u8fdc\u4e0d\u4f1a\u5fd8\u8bb0\u6211\u4eec\u7684\u7ed3\u5a5a\u7eaa\u5ff5\u65e5\u3002<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t

\n\t\t\t\t
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\u7535\u5b50\u7434\u58f0\u8bc1\u826f\u7f18<\/h2>\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t
\n\t\t\t\t
\n\t\t\t\t
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\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t
\n\t\t\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\u64ad\u5ba2\u603b\u89c8\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t
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\u674e\u4e1d\u8389\u4e0e\u5f53\u65f6\u4ecd\u5728\u670d\u5211\u7684\u674e\u5065\u7fa4\uff0c\u5728\u201c\u8fc7\u6e21\u4e2d\u5fc3\u201d\u4e3e\u884c\u7b80\u5355\u800c\u5e84\u4e25\u7684\u5a5a\u793c\u3002\u8fd9\u5206\u7231\u60c5\u8de8\u8d8a\u91cd\u91cd\u8003\u9a8c\uff0c\u89c1\u8bc1\u4e86\u4ed6\u4eec\u9762\u5bf9\u4eba\u751f\u98ce\u96e8\u7684\u52c7\u6c14\u4e0e\u575a\u5b9a\u3002\u56fe\u7247\u6765\u6e90\uff0f\u674e\u4e1d\u8389<\/figcaption>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/figure>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t
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\u674e\u4e1d\u8389\u4e0e\u674e\u5065\u7fa4\u5728\u201c\u8fc7\u6e21\u4e2d\u5fc3\u201d\u5b8c\u6210\u5a5a\u793c\u540e\u7684\u5408\u5f71\u3002\u56fe\u7247\u6765\u6e90\uff0f\u674e\u4e1d\u8389<\/figcaption>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/figure>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t
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2012\u5e74\uff0c\u6211\u4eec\u5728\u201c\u8fc7\u6e21\u4e2d\u5fc3\u201d\u7684\u4e00\u95f4\u5c0f\u623f\u95f4\u91cc\u4e3e\u884c\u5a5a\u793c\u3002\u867d\u7136\u573a\u5730\u7b80\u5355\uff0c\u5374\u683c\u5916\u96be\u5fd8\u3002\u6709\u7267\u5e08\u8bc1\u5a5a\uff0c\u4e00\u4f4d\u6148\u6d4e\u5e08\u5144\u8fd8\u5f39\u8457\u7535\u5b50\u7434\u4f34\u594f\uff0c\u800c\u6211\u5219\u7a7f\u7740\u666e\u901a\u7684\u670d\u88c5\u3002\u4f46\u5728\u90a3\u4e2a\u7279\u522b\u7684\u65f6\u523b\uff0c\u6211\u8fd8\u5e26\u53bb\u4e86\u4e24\u679a\u6212\u6307\u3002

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\u6211\u56de\u7b54\uff1a\u201c\u6211\u76f8\u4fe1\u4ed6\u672c\u8d28\u662f\u4e2a\u597d\u4eba\u3002\u867d\u7136\u6211\u4e0d\u8d5e\u540c\u4ed6\u5f53\u521d\u505a\u7684\u4e8b\uff0c\u4f46\u6211\u80fd\u7406\u89e3\u539f\u56e0\u3002\u4ed6\u4e0d\u662f\u4e3a\u4e86\u81ea\u5df1\uff0c\u4e5f\u4e0d\u662f\u4e3a\u4e86\u94b1\uff0c\u800c\u662f\u56e0\u4e3a\u60f3\u7ef4\u62a4\u5bb6\u5ead\u548c\u8c10\u4e0e\u56e2\u7ed3\uff0c\u4ed6\u4e5f\u662f\u53d7\u5bb3\u8005\u3002\u201d\u7267\u5e08\u542c\u5230\u540e\u611f\u5230\u60ca\u8bb6\uff0c\u56e0\u4e3a\u6211\u4eec\u4ece\u8ba4\u8bc6\u5230\u7ed3\u5a5a\uff0c\u4e0d\u8fc7\u4e00\u5e74\u591a\uff1b\u800c\u4ed6\u5411\u6211\u8868\u767d\u5230\u7b54\u5e94\uff0c\u4e5f\u4ec5\u4ec5\u534a\u5e74\u3002

\u7531\u4e8e\u4ed6\u4e0d\u80fd\u51fa\u95e8\uff0c\u7ed3\u5a5a\u7684\u624b\u7eed\u5168\u9760\u6148\u6d4e\u5e08\u5144\u5e08\u59ca\u5e2e\u5fd9\uff0c\u6709\u4eba\u5e26\u6211\u53bb\u6cd5\u9662\u767b\u8bb0\uff0c\u624d\u5f97\u4ee5\u5b8c\u6210\u5a5a\u793c\u5b89\u6392\u3002<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t

\n\t\t\t\t
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\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\u6148\u6d4e\u7f8e\u56fd\u603b\u4f1a\u5fd7\u5de5\u3000\u674e\u4e1d\u8389<\/cite>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/blockquote>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t
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2014\u5e74\uff0c\u5065\u7fa4\u5e08\u5144\u7ec8\u4e8e\u83b7\u5f97\u5047\u91ca\uff0c\u80fd\u987a\u5229\u5047\u91ca\uff0c\u591a\u4e8f\u5dde\u957f\u592b\u4eba\u7684\u5e2e\u52a9\u3002\u4f46\u547d\u8fd0\u7684\u5b89\u6392\u975e\u5e38\u5947\u7279\uff0c\u90a3\u4e00\u5929\uff0c\u521a\u597d\u4e5f\u662f\u6211\u6bcd\u4eb2\u7684\u544a\u522b\u5f0f\uff0c\u559c\u4e0e\u60b2\u4ea4\u9519\uff0c\u8ba9\u6211\u7684\u5fc3\u60c5\u65e0\u6bd4\u590d\u6742\u3002\u5047\u91ca\u7684\u65e5\u671f\u4e0e\u65f6\u95f4\u5b8c\u5168\u4e0d\u80fd\u66f4\u6539\uff0c\u6240\u4ee5\u4ed6\u5728\u51cc\u6668\u4e24\u4e09\u70b9\u88ab\u653e\u51fa\u6765\u3002

\u5f53\u5730\u7684\u5e08\u5144\u5e08\u59ca\u7279\u5730\u534a\u591c\u53bb\u63a5\u4ed6\uff0c\u5e76\u9001\u5f80\u673a\u573a\u3002\u7b49\u4ed6\u8f6c\u673a\u62b5\u8fbe\u52a0\u5dde\u65f6\uff0c\u5df2\u7ecf\u662f\u6e05\u6668\u3002\u800c\u6211\u90a3\u5929\u5fc5\u987b\u53c2\u52a0\u6bcd\u4eb2\u7684\u544a\u522b\u5f0f\uff0c\u65e0\u6cd5\u4eb2\u81ea\u53bb\u63a5\u4ed6\uff0c\u53ea\u80fd\u62dc\u6258\u5fd7\u5de5\u76f4\u63a5\u628a\u4ed6\u9001\u5f80\u73ab\u7470\u5c97\u6ba1\u4eea\u9986\uff08Rose Hills \uff09\u3002\u504f\u504f\u5f53\u5929\u53c8\u9047\u4e0a\u585e\u8f66\uff0c\u8def\u9014\u9065\u8fdc\uff0c\u65f6\u95f4\u975e\u5e38\u7d27\u8feb\u3002\u6240\u5e78\uff0c\u4ed6\u6700\u7ec8\u8fd8\u662f\u8d76\u5230\u4e86\u3002\u80fd\u5728\u51fa\u72f1\u540e\u7684\u7b2c\u4e00\u5929\uff0c\u7acb\u523b\u53c2\u52a0\u6211\u6bcd\u4eb2\u7684\u544a\u522b\u5f0f\uff0c\u5bf9\u6211\u6765\u8bf4\u662f\u65e0\u6bd4\u7684\u5b89\u6170\u3002<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t

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\n\t\t\t\t\u8fd9\u65e2\u662f\u4e00\u573a\u54c0\u4f24\u7684\u544a\u522b\uff0c\u4e5f\u662f\u65b0\u751f\u6d3b\u7684\u8d77\u70b9\u3002\u6211\u59cb\u7ec8\u89c9\u5f97\uff0c\u8fd9\u662f\u4e00\u6bb5\u7279\u522b\u7684\u56e0\u7f18\uff0c\u6216\u8bb8\u66f4\u662f\u83e9\u8428\u7684\u5e87\u4f51\u3002\u591a\u5e74\u6765\u6211\u6295\u5165\u6148\u6d4e\uff0c\u70b9\u6ef4\u7d2f\u79ef\u798f\u62a5\uff0c\u4e5f\u8bb8\u6b63\u56e0\u5982\u6b64\uff0c\u624d\u8fce\u6765\u8fd9\u6837\u96be\u4ee5\u7f6e\u4fe1\u7684\u5de7\u5408\u3002\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t

\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\u6148\u6d4e\u7f8e\u56fd\u603b\u4f1a\u5fd7\u5de5\u3000\u674e\u4e1d\u8389<\/cite>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/blockquote>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t
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